Newmedia on Mon, 13 May 2013 16:02:33 +0200 (CEST) |
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Re: <nettime> Digital Politics <--> Digital Economics |
Flick: > I hate to sound like a cold warrior myself . . . Thanks for this illuminating RANT -- yes, you *do* seem to be trapped in the COLD WAR (so, can I help you to escape) . . . ?? <g> My first trip to China was in 1997 and I have gone back many times since. No "minders" and no limit on my ability to talk to the "man on the street." On my first trip, I was commonly approached by people as I rode a bike through the Beijing hutongs, especially kids, so that they could practice their English. But, at that time, getting accurate information about where things -- like an art exhibit or even the National Library -- were located was a challenge and many topics seemed off-limits. On my more recent trips, it has been impossible to not be approached wherever I go by people (of all ages) who wanted to discuss everything -- politics, economics, history etc. -- yes, once again to practice their English, which can cost them $100's for lessons. Walking down the street, standing in line, going to a flea-market -- everyone wanted to talk! In addition to the general economic development, my guess is the Internet has made a lot of difference both is in what people know and what they're interested in talking about (which tends to map onto topics you know something about, so you won't be embarassed.) Words like "democracy" are propaganda terms. Of course the word existed much earlier but it was *fundamentally* re-purposed in the 1950s in order to "fight" the COMMUNISTS. We were "democratic" and they were "authoritarian." Or, as shown in an interview with the CIA's Ray Cline about the Eisenhower era, back then *everything* was re-cast in propaganda terms -- "almost black and white" as he termed it -- including the view that NOT helping the uprising in Budapest would become a propaganda victory for the US by showing how brutal the Soviets were acting. Continuing to use that terminology *against* the Chinese today, even in terms of Tibet, is foolish for the simple reason that anyone with any knowledge of the actual situation will immediately see that it doesn't fit. Ten's of millions of Chinese travel abroad (and then come home), just as 100,000s study in Western colleges (and then go home), including those who nearly every academic I talk to refer to as their *best* PhD students (who then go home). Imagining that what happens on Weibo etc is somehow like an "Iron Curtain" is just stupid, although common. Perhaps you're familiar with the work of Francois Jullien on the Chinese term "shi" (which, in part, refers to cultural notions about "authority in social action") -- http://www.amazon.com/Propensity-Things -Toward-History-Efficacy/dp/B0085SI3S0/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1368286523&sr=1-1&keywords =propensity+things Last November, I helped to organize a conference at the UN focused on a "Dialogue of World Civilizations," so, as it turns out, I know a little about the place and, indeed, its long-term civilization -- which is quite different from the West and would be a good place to begin for a more thoughtful discussion. Mark Stahlman Brooklyn NY P.S. When I first got involved with nettime, it was around the time of my first trip to China. Back then, the "big-deal" was the BEAST (i.e. aka "Beauty" or those responsible for anti-Soviet propaganda) finally meeting the EAST (i.e. those who were the targets). As best I can recall, there has been little discussion of China, or its parallels with the Soviet Union, in the past 15+ years on this list. Perhaps that should change -- if there are enough people hereabouts who know enough to have an intelligent conversation? # distributed via <nettime>: no commercial use without permission # <nettime> is a moderated mailing list for net criticism, # collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets # more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l # archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nettime@kein.org